Note from tribe.net: please assign a moderator

topic posted Wed, May 16, 2007 - 12:08 PM by  TOU (Terms o...
Hey there, "bees" members--

This Tribe doesn't have an active moderator, but as a matter of policy, Tribe.net likes all groups to have a leader. Can you collectively choose someone to moderate your Tribe?

When you've reached consensus, have the new moderator send a note to help@tribe.net, with the words "Moderator Change –bees" in the subject header, letting us know that you've selected a new leader. Please be sure to include a link to this discussion thread!


Thanks--

TOU (Terms of Use) Guy
  • For one, I would like to see other candidates. No elective process should ever be won by default.

    Second, I would like to know if GM thinks that personal bias and inclinations to push certain opinions can be kept isolated from any moderating duties. A person with an agenda is often not the best choice for moderator.
    • GM?
      • Ooops, sorry, Girl Mark...duh~

        James, are you interested in moderating?

        If so, we could have a proper election~
        • Well, not really interested in moderating in general but I do it if it has to be done.

          If we just need another body to be able to have an actual election I would fill in but there are plenty of others who would make good candidates. I often take things a bit too seriously for some peoples tastes.

          I do think I know a fair amount about what makes for a bad moderator, and like to think I avoid them in the tribes I do moderate. Hen makes some very good points about what you see far too often. Moderator bias and heavy handedness on one hand, or almost complete lack of any regulation of inappropriate behavior on the other hand, which is worse than no moderator at all.

          Personally, I am the first person to admit that I have my own agenda in the world but I like to think that I can keep it out of the way when it comes to moderating duties.

          I'm certainly no expert on bees other than liking them and honey and helping my friends with their bees now and then, but on the other hand that isn't really what a moderator is for. In fact I personally think moderators should not be overly involved in the discussion as it tends to hamper the free exchange of ideas when people think the person they are talking to is in a position of authority, no matter how minor that authority is.

          One of the biggest problems I here on tribe is when a moderator disagrees with someone in another tribe and then gets vindictive in the tribe they moderate as a form of retribution against a person and self serving ego stroke. The moderator of the Ethical Consumerism tribe pulled that stunt on me not long ago, even after I had talked him out of giving up the position of moderator in that tribe, though looking back it was probably just a play for attention.

          So if people want me to, I will run, but I would like to nominate you because you seem to be good at disagreeing politely, and I would also like to nominate Hen because she has some good thoughts about moderating too.

          I am all for anyone who can keep the peace in a fair and unbiased fashion and knows how to warn people with appropriate and progressive degrees of management according to how or if things escalate.
          • I accept your nomination, James. I would hope that whoever assumes moderation would be balanced in their approach. If you are curious to see how I function as a moderator, check out the LOST-ABC tribe. We maintain a very lively discussion over there. And we're very much a community.

            LOST-TV.tribe.net

            But again, I'm other than a beekeeper~ I'm not a keeper of anything other than my own clothes and art supplies really~

            :)

            But I do love the Bees and my gardens~
    • I'm going to try and keep this brief...probably unsuccessfully. :P

      I am on another tribe which is one of the worst moderated tribes, nay, message boards, that I have ever encountered. The moderator has the position that people who make personal attacks, etc. are welcome as long as they "also contribute." This means that trolls can stay, as long as they include substantial posts with troll posts (or combine them). I have only seen one person booted from this tribe in several years, who told someone who asked a question that they were a "fucking moron" for asking.

      Meanwhile, there are little pairs and clusters of people who argue with each other constantly. The mod's way of dealing with it is to delete threads that devolve into arguing. I had an entire thread deleted recently, because two other people began arguing with one another about something tangential to what I posted - two people who regularly argue. It really, really pissed me off.

      My personal thread being deleted aside, I have always been of the opinion that flames should not be deleted, if possible. The reason is twofold: people who post at a board should have to live with what they have posted, and people visiting a board should be able to see how volatile a board is, and what gets someone thrown off of it. If you visited this other tribe, and read through the posts, you'd think it was a tribe of complete harmony, when in fact flame wars break out regularly.

      On more well designed message board systems, a moderator can move these threads or posts to a separate board, but unfortunately, tribe is too lame. So, I do understand the need to delete some threads from time to time - but I would like it personally if deleted threads were accompanied by an explanation, like "racist attacks will not be tolerated," or whatever.

      Now, mind you, so far, the beekeepers here have been a mild bunch, even in disagreement. I suspect very little moderation will be necessary here. We didn't even notice there was no mod - how long has this been true?! Even so, the real need to moderate may arise.

      Therefore, I have the same basic reservations as James, but I'm happy with *any* mod who is willing to moderate lightly, and patiently but reasonably, and when the time comes, perhaps ruthlessly.

      I'd prefer anyone who would like to moderate to say why they would ban someone with warning, ban someone without warning, intervene in a post, or delete a post. You know, the things a mod does. :)

      This is more important to me that knowledge of bees, though I think that's important.

      *stepping off me soapbox*
  • A proposal.

    Wed, May 23, 2007 - 9:00 AM
    Can we agree than, that since this is a respectful, thoughtful community of considerate, communicative individuals that we are okay WITHOUT MODERATION?

    If we have consensus to be without moderation, then Tribe will respect that and either leave the current moderator in place, or just have no moderator at all.

    The one thing I feel strongly about and am going to recommend again, and please tell me if you agree, is upgrading the name of the tribe to a capital letter.

    Let's be the "Bees" tribe, unmoderated, respectful, and honoring of our beautiful Bee friends~

    :)
    • Re: A proposal.

      Wed, May 23, 2007 - 9:18 PM
      <snip>If we have consensus to be without moderation, then Tribe will respect that and either leave the current moderator in place, or just have no moderator at all. <snip>

      There is no current moderator, and I don't think Tribe will respect such a consensus.

      It could be fun to see how long it takes them to notice if we do nothing, but I wager they'll be back. Moo ha ha!
      • Re: A proposal.

        Wed, May 23, 2007 - 9:20 PM
        And actually, I can't agree to no moderator, because I've also been on tribes where someone has started spamming or otherwise trolling, and a moderator is the only one who can take care of that.
        • Re: A proposal.

          Wed, May 23, 2007 - 9:22 PM
          Then we must choose~

          And so far there is no consensus. People spoke out for and against Girl Mark. I volunteered to moderate. I also recommended James as moderator. But we do not have consensus.

          Any ideas?
          • Re: A proposal.

            Thu, May 24, 2007 - 8:45 AM
            Well, we could hold an election and have someone ready to go if they really push for it. That way we would have plenty of time.
            • Re: A proposal.

              Thu, May 24, 2007 - 11:02 AM
              Well, we could hold an election and have someone ready to go if they really push for it.

              This sounds fine to me,we are a laid back bunch,although I have Bees ,I don't call myself a beekeeper in the traditional sense,I am trying to manipulate this new swarm more than the original,but all I am doing different this time is adding new foundation in the frames,before the first swarm I caught had so much comb built on the swarm trap top I just set it all down in an m/t hive and left them alone.
              • Re: A proposal.

                Thu, May 24, 2007 - 5:11 PM
                I doubt you'll find anyone on Tribe who's permanently 'impartial' and un-opinionated.

                'People' didn't speak out against me, one James did, I believe. James has somewhat of a history of fighting with people on Tribe who at all question his information, and since he's often speaking authoritatively about things he seems to have no actual real-life experience with (he reads a lot, but blurs the line between what he's read and what he's actually done when giving technical advice, from what I've seen), it seems like he's a bit of a flame magnet. He also tends to get pissy when called on it rather than taking the correction.

                For instance, there was a long thread similar to this one about electing a moderator, on the NonTraditional Housing tribe, which involved a giant fight between James and another candidate who'd been critical of James prior to the 'election. the above post by James reminds me of the same kind of issues, though as I"m showing restraint it hasn't devolved like the NTH one did. The NTH one was deleted after they finished their election so only the folks on that tribe will remember what I"m talking about probably )


                Anyway, my personal opinion is that James was just upset because I

                a. declined a very personalized friend invitation from him a few months back

                b. ONE time, of all the gazillion posts of his I've seen, I responded (here) that he was giving really bad technical advice that makes it obvious he had no experience with the beekeeping (luckily since my post he's been appending his posts with the disclaimer that he's not a beekeeper, so obviously some good came out of my post). In my defense, I've ignored many similarly inaccurate posts from James (moslty about biofuels)

                There is a tradition in technical discussions on the Internet, that people generally 'call people on" acting authoritative when they're obviously not experienced enough to make pronouncements that mislead newbies (and his comment was so drastically wrong, and he was speaking with such authority, that it was really necessary to point out that this was 'armchair' advice.) This tradition makes the internet more accurate and makes it easier to filter bad info from good. It's a bad thing for forums when that devolves into flames, though.

                The way that James makes his authoritative technical pronouncements seems to be the root of why several different tribes have experienced flames involving James- he doesnt necessarily start them but he frequently speaks incorrectly from such a pompous position without revealing his lack of actual experience with the technical subjects, and doesn't take criticism well.

                I"d be happy to provide a few links if you'd like, though I don't think this is actually a thread about James. I'll also make the 'view recent posts' section of my profile visible for a few days so if anyone's really interested they can go through my posts and see that I really dont get into fights here on Tribe (other than exposing the "alt" Ricky last week). You can also check out my moderation style in the Food Traditions and Food Rituals tribe and the kefir tribe (link in my profile) . No, I"m not a moderation nazi. I also doubt there's a problem with spam, fighting, or other issues here, so I doubt anyone really needs to get freaked uot about any moderator overdoing their job on the Bees tribe.



                Mark
                • Re: A proposal.

                  Thu, May 24, 2007 - 7:04 PM
                  And your flaming piece of BS slander is precisely why you should not be a moderator.

                  Yeah right, I misread one question because I was over tired and corrected it later and that is grounds for a broad sweeping obnoxious claim like the one you are making. Real mature.

                  Oh, and I HAVE kept bees in the past and help local friends with theirs. Everyone who disagrees with you is not wrong.

                  Funny how people like you always get pissy when someone points out their concerns about your inclinations and biases. Your behavior is precisely the same as what caused the arguement in the other tribe you allude to, and that was another arrogant flake as well.

                  For the record, you never responded to the friend request and it was hardly "very personalized". Now that I know what you are like you can count on the fact that it is no longer an option. You are far too arrogant and narrow minded. Don't spend too much time stroking yourself over it.

                  I'm not even going to discuss all the other distortions and lies in your piece of garbage post.

                  You make a lot of false assertions and claims which to me prove that you are an arrogant agenda driven petty individual.

                  Inaccurate claims about biofuels my ass. Cut the crap or you will be talking to tribe administration.
  • Look!!!! We are capitalized!!!

    Hooray, Bees!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    :)

    And we remain unmoderated! Now, let's all honor Tribe's honoring of us and be a respectful community!!!!

    :)
    • Sounds good to me.

      By the way, I had the most bees of the entire season in my fields today. Blackberries are in bloom, as are phlox, honeysuckle and my quince bushes and it really seemed to draw them.

      There were plenty of bumbles and mason bees too.
      • Awesome, James! I'm about to plant some honeysuckle myself!

        :)

        And I saw the fattest bumblebee ever today! I just wanted to pet him! (I didn't, but it was a strong urge to resist!)

        :)

        Bees! Bees! Bees!
        • It's great stuff. Mine have started to spread to take over one of the field areas I set aside as a wildlife sanctuary. I have small honeysuckle bushes everywhere. I've given a few away to friends, that and some of the canadian blackberry sprouts.

          I know what you mean about petting them, they are often very fuzzy, and they are quite soft.

          I have had to rescue quite a few bees from the watering trays under some of my plants. It's interesting to watch them start to recover, then groom themselves back to looking fuzzy again. I usually let them lay in my hand to help them warm up again until they are ready to fly.

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